Some clarification about the YDNA test, please

[Blaise A. Darveaux]

Can anyone among you who knows more about genetic genealogy then I, please explain to me how a man can get 12,500 exact matches in a Y-DNA test with FamilyTreeDNA, yet NONE of them share the surname of the tested individual. Is this typical? My uncle (my father's brother) was tested shortly before he passed (he was the youngest and last of 10 children in his family). Those are his results.

I've been studying up a bit on the Y-DNA test. It is only passed from father to son. If the tested person is in a culture where male children take the surname (as mine does) then all matches should have the same surname. Except for a few twigs on the tree that have added an x on the end in very recent times, my surname has been unchanged for about 7 or 8 generations starting in the 1600's in French Canada. I don't know if any other male Darveau's have done a Y-DNA test, but of the couple thousand, it would be hard to believe that at least one hasn't. I will be doing it soon to see if I match with him and I will try to get one of his eight sons to take the test as well.

There was never a question about my uncle being adopted or anything like that. His membership in the family is well documented with birth certificates, census reports, photographs, etc. And besides, my father who was older, knew him since he was a baby. There are no family stories, rumors, or legends that would contradict the belief that he is the son of my grandfather.

Thanks for any insight about this.

[theKiwi]

What number of markers were tested?

Have you or your father also taken a Y-DNA test?

Roger

[Blaise A. Darveaux]

What number of markers were tested?

My uncle had the Y12 test. If any of us had known more about the subject we would have gone in for one of the higher tests, but we didn't. Can they upgrade his test without having to submit another sample?

Have you or your father also taken a Y-DNA test?

My father has passed without taking the test, but I was thinking the next step would be to have myself tested AND at least one of my uncle's 8 sons to be tested. I might be able to find a second cousin to do it also.

Blaise

[theKiwi]

Yes - your uncle's test can be upgraded without having to send another sample. My original sample I sent to FamilyTreeDNA produced Y25, Y37, Y67, Y111, mtDNA, and Autosomal. I had to send another sample recently for the Big Y700 test.

You might also consider getting your uncle's test run for autosomal DNA too, then test yourself and compare.

Not much sense in testing your uncle's kids - they'll be carrying whatever it is he's carrying, but won't help you figure out your uncle's family.

Roger

[Blaise A. Darveaux]

My uncle did have autosomal DNA tested as well with 3553 matches. I don't know what to do with the rest of the data that comes from this test.

My thinking to have one of my uncle's sons tested was to validate their father's tests. Samples can get switched or misplaced in a lab. Stranger things have happened.

No one I've talked with (including someone at Your DNA guide.com) can explain how my uncle can have 12,500 matches with people with different surnames. I wouldn't expect that much even if every male Darveau in North America had 5 illegitimate male children, each with 5 other married women AND all those males were tested for Y-DNA. It boggles the mind.

Blaise

[bbousquet]

My uncle did have autosomal DNA tested as well with 3553 matches. I don't know what to do with the rest of the data that comes from this test.

My thinking to have one of my uncle's sons tested was to validate their father's tests. Samples can get switched or misplaced in a lab. Stranger things have happened.

No one I've talked with (including someone at Your DNA guide.com) can explain how my uncle can have 12,500 matches with people with different surnames. I wouldn't expect that much even if every male Darveau in North America had 5 illegitimate male children, each with 5 other married women AND all those males were tested for Y-DNA. It boggles the mind.

Blaise

The Y-12 test is pretty useless for matches. It's basically good enough to get your haplogroup but that's about it. From past experience, Y-37 is the minimum to start getting matches for which the common paternal ancestor isn't thousands of years back.

FYI I'm in the admin group for the French Heritage DNA group at FTDNA. I did look up the kit which I believe you are referring to and the group does not have another Darveau (or Darveaux) Y-DNA test to compare it with.

My suggestions are:
- upgrade the Y-12 to something more meaningful (you may want to wait for the next sale); FTDNA keeps the samples unless instructed otherwise and you can upgrade the test as long as there is material left
- find another Darveau male (not immediate family, obviously) and buy him a test; that surname is not super common and I believe there is more than one line that came through Nouvelle France

[Blaise A. Darveaux]

Thank you Benoît. Very useful information. And you basically answered my question about the crazy results. As to upgrading the existing test, I am pretty sure that I downloaded my uncle's data and the site says upgrades aren't available when that is done. It is not a pressing matter. I have no brick walls to break or mysteries to solve. Getting my uncle tested was mostly a curiosity and there is also all the other data to sift though also. Thanks again.

Blaise

[theKiwi]

As to upgrading the existing test, I am pretty sure that I downloaded my uncle's data and the site says upgrades aren't available when that is done.

No - these are two separate things - as long as you have the login to your Uncle's kit, and ideally his permission to manage the kit, you can order an upgrade to more Y-DNA markers, and/or a different type of test.

Roger

[Blaise A. Darveaux]

Thanks for your help, Roger.

This if from the FTDNA site in the Additions and Upgrades section.

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That just begs the question, What do they mean "...or you uploaded your data." I downloaded the data, but didn't upload anything. Not even a GEDCOM.

--Blaise

[theKiwi]

That means that you had the DNA test done somewhere else, and then uploaded the data file from that test to FamilyTreeDNA - in such a case clearly they can't do any more testing since they don't have a saliva sample to work with.

Roger

[Blaise A. Darveaux]

Well that certainly didn't happen. My cousin who submitted the sample for his father knows even less about this stuff then me. He probably looked at the data once when it first came out in 2018 and hasn't done anything with it since. I have just downloaded the data. I have not transferred it (didn't even know you could) from another company.

I'll just order the upgrade. If there is sample, great. If not, I may submit one myself.

Thanks for explaining.

[theKiwi]

I'll just order the upgrade. If there is sample, great. If not, I may submit one myself.

If there is no sample, you'll have to take a new test for yourself - you can't send your sample to tested as your uncle's.

Roger

[Blaise A. Darveaux]

If there is no sample, you'll have to take a new test for yourself - you can't send your sample to tested as your uncle's.

Roger

I understand. That's what I meant. Thanks.