Had issue?

[scatchardfamily]

I am wondering how fellow Reunion users indicate children born to a couple without entering in all the detail.

Sometimes, I reach a family where I do not want to list the children (for various reasons), but I also want to make a note that I know they had some.

It would be good to have a "had issue" feature where such an event is marked, to balance out the "no children" feature.

I don't really want to create a "phantom" child entry with a weird name. And if I put it in notes it might not show obviously enough.

What do people do?

[SGilbert]

Re: Had issue?

I am wondering how fellow Reunion users indicate children born to a couple without entering in all the detail.

Sometimes, I reach a family where I do not want to list the children (for various reasons), but I also want to make a note that I know they had some.

It would be good to have a "had issue" feature where such an event is marked, to balance out the "no children" feature.

I don't really want to create a "phantom" child entry with a weird name. And if I put it in notes it might not show obviously enough.

What do people do?

I enter at least one child of the couple; name blank; sex unknown. Add note in parents notes. (Father, mother, or both)

[scatchardfamily]

Re: Had issue?

Thanks, but does that not skew your stats –*names, children, etc.

Dear Reunion developers: Would it not be better to have a "had issue" button or the like?

[mjashby]

Re: Had issue?

The potential problem with entering a 'ghost' child or children as an on-screen indicator that someone had/has children is that it tends to complicate standard narrative reports/database output etc. by reporting the existence of these mystery children, unless you remember to fully privatise those entries so that they do not appear in any form of report and/or export.

I am more inclined towards entering narrative explanations about off-spring in a Miscellaneous Family Event if it is not necessary to record full details, perhaps because there is no immediate interest in that couple's descendants; or in a privatised Family/Individual Note if the information is 'sensitive'. For a visual (on-screen) reminder about unrecorded children I use a Flag "Had issue", but these have, of course, to be applied to both parents as, unfortunately, there is no provision for Family Flags.

Mervyn

[scatchardfamily]

Re: Had issue?

This is also very helpful.

Why can't Reunion have a "had issue" button, like the "No children" marker? Is it because it has not been requested yet?

[Michael Talibard]

Re: Had issue?

Why can't Reunion have a "had issue" button, like the "No children" marker? Is it because it has not been requested yet?

If it has been requested before, that doesn't mean it's going to be there, because Leister can't give us everything we ask for - if they could, I'd have got one of mine by now. They have to choose, and for good reasons, they don't tell us about this process. If it has not been requested before, that may be because most of us don't feel the need.

[mjashby]

Re: Had issue?

I agree with Michael's comments.

Looking at the question logically:

1. If you use the "Had no children" marker, that implies that you've researched the matter thoroughly and have ruled out the possibility of any descendants from that line. It also implies they (the couple) did not have any children though any other means, including legal adoption.

2. If you had access to and used a "Had Issue" marker what would it's use actually mean on it's own?

a) You know the couple had issue but don't know anything about them (so may need to do more research)?
b) You know the couple had children but don't want to follow that line, so have omitted any further detail.
c) You know the couple had children but you have omitted them for privacy/sensitivity reasons and/or you've been asked not to include that information in your research?
d) The couple did have 'natural' children, but ceased to be the legal parents at some point (possibly from birth), so you haven't recorded them as part of the 'family unit'.

The marker, if it existed, wouldn't provide an answer/indicator, but would simply prompt more questions whenever you or someone else came across it unless you record further information through Events/Notes.

This whole subject is actually fraught with research difficulties and, in my opinion, the "Had no children" itself is often a subjective judgement/conclusion, meaning you've found no evidence of any children, i.e. it's frequently a conclusion due to lack of evidence otherwise, rather than a fact.

Mervyn

[scatchardfamily]

Re: Had issue?

Thank you for your replies. Your arguments, mjashby, are beautifully put but the logic exists the other way round in just as forceful (or unforceful) a manner.

I am certain not everybody uses the "Had no children" feature –*I don't do it in any case other than a family I know and therefore I know for certain had no children. The old saying goes you cannot prove a negative. That said, there are very many legal cases, often including moneyed families, where knowing there were no children, is an established fact. Nonetheless, anyone else may come across this marker and want to determine its veracity –*some legal cases, previously established, have been overturned; or indeed the famous intestate cases, etc etc.

On the other hand, again, without needing to use the feature, some people may indicate "Had children" for a variety of reasons, which are totally unimportant to anyone except to them –*as with a lot of research.

At the end of the day it's about choice. There is no reason to err on one side more than the other.

[Bob White]

Re: Had issue?

In my opinion, this discussion borders on being really silly. Genealogy is not a woulda-coulda-maybe-maybe not thing. If there were children, I record them. If I am certain there were no children, that's when I use the "no children" entry. But I use that very sparingly because, unless I am very, very certain there were no children, I simply do not make any entry at all.

If one doesn't want to share information about a particular child, Reunion has sufficient tools to take care of not reporting said information in reports.

[Dennis J. Cunniff]

Re: Had issue?

If there were children, I record them. If I am certain there were no children, that's when I use the "no children" entry. But I use that very sparingly because, unless I am very, very certain there were no children, I simply do not make any entry at all.

Sometimes, in compiled genealogies, you encounter statements like "9 childern" or "5 sons, 2 daughters". It's always seemed to me that such assertions fit very nicely in the marriage notes, where you can give them a source. If you don't want to enter the children, that's fine, but it provides a starting place if you want to do so later.

[scatchardfamily]

Re: Had issue?

Bob White et al.: The only silly thing here is that people are balking at the very idea of having a choice to have a button. I definitely agree there should be no maybes in genealogy –*hence, a "No children" option for a certainty in this respect, and a "Had issue" for a certainty in that respect. Nothing silly about it: since one option is there why not the corollary? I do not necessarily want to spend my life typing up details about certain families when I am not interested in them; however, I might want to know that they had children for future reference, and for other researchers to pick up on should they wish to.

Dennis J. Cunniff: thank you very much for your helpful suggestion. I shall probably follow that one until this idea gets taken up, which I hope it will. Is there a way to make sure I readily notice such a note while perusing Reunion, i.e. before printing off a report?

[Dennis J. Cunniff]

Re: Had issue?

Dennis J. Cunniff: thank you very much for your helpful suggestion. I shall probably follow that one until this idea gets taken up, which I hope it will. Is there a way to make sure I readily notice such a note while perusing Reunion, i.e. before printing off a report?

If you put any text into the marriage notes field, a little icon of a yellow pencil writing on a white note pad will appear on the far right side of the marriage button on the family card. It's not a flashing red siren, but if you're looking for it it will let you know that the note contains text without having to click on it and open it.

For each report type (Family Group Sheet, Register, Ancestor, etc.) you can change the default layout to include "Family Fields -> Misc Notes" so that any marriage notes will automatically be included in print outs.

[Paul Reitz]

Re: Had issue?

I
This whole subject is actually fraught with research difficulties and, in my opinion, the "Had no children" itself is often a subjective judgement/conclusion, meaning you've found no evidence of any children, i.e. it's frequently a conclusion due to lack of evidence otherwise, rather than a fact.
Mervyn

When I reach my limit of documenting a line, I add names of known descendants to a field created for that purpose.

Your comment about research difficulties is well-taken. What makes Reunion great for formal documentation also limits utility as a research tool. Doing research, I would like to have a field in which URL-like links could be added to potentially-related people, to avoid implying an established relationship that would wreck documentation. For that, a work-around is maintaining a separate file.

-Paul
Reunion 11.0.8, Mac OS 10.11.3

[Jan Powell]

Re: Had issue?

I am wondering how fellow Reunion users indicate children born to a couple without entering in all the detail.

Sometimes, I reach a family where I do not want to list the children (for various reasons), but I also want to make a note that I know they had some.

It would be good to have a "had issue" feature where such an event is marked, to balance out the "no children" feature.

I don't really want to create a "phantom" child entry with a weird name. And if I put it in notes it might not show obviously enough.

What do people do?

I create an unknown gender child. In the forenames field I put [seven children] or [children] or whatever is appropriate. Solves the "problem".

[suzivegemite]

Re: Had issue?

I record non researched children in the couples Misc.Notes field also. If you want something more noticeable you could also set up a flag called 'Had Issue' which could be assigned to the parents. My flags reside at the bottom of the Name Panel so they are really noticeable.

Hope this helps
S