Sources versus Citations

[Knarressprings]

Please excuse me if this has been asked, answered, and done to death before...

If I have a source (say a census) that I can use to show a residence address for multiple persons (everyone in a household), should I create one Source for that census and the cite it in each of the individuals named? If so where should I indicate what part of the source (in this case the individual entry in the census record) that I'm citing? Or should I make one source for each person (in this case, one for each line of the census)?

I guess what I'm asking, in some level of gibberish, is if I should make one source per citation, or one source, and then multiple citations of it, and where should I put the specific information that distinguishes a given use of a source in a citation from a use of the same source in a different one?

[Kim]

Re: Sources versus Citations

Please excuse me if this has been asked, answered, and done to death before...

If I have a source (say a census) that I can use to show a residence address for multiple persons (everyone in a household), should I create one Source for that census and the cite it in each of the individuals named? If so where should I indicate what part of the source (in this case the individual entry in the census record) that I'm citing? Or should I make one source for each person (in this case, one for each line of the census)?

I guess what I'm asking, in some level of gibberish, is if I should make one source per citation, or one source, and then multiple citations of it, and where should I put the specific information that distinguishes a given use of a source in a citation from a use of the same source in a different one?

I create one source per census page (or pages if the family carries over). Then for each person listed, I add a census entry and cite that source.....the same source for the entire family.

Does that answer the question you asked?

[theKiwi]

Re: Sources versus Citations

I create one source per census page (or pages if the family carries over). Then for each person listed, I add a census entry and cite that source.....the same source for the entire family.

Does that answer the question you asked?

This is what I do too - one census page == 1 source - unless the family spreads across two pages, in which case that source has two pages, cited as many times as necessary.

But 1 page with multiple families listed on it still equals 1 source, cited as many times as necessary.

Roger

[Frank]

Re: Sources versus Citations

...should make one source per citation, or one source, and then multiple citations of it, and where should I put the specific information that distinguishes a given use of a source in a citation from a use of the same source in a different one?

In addition to the advice already given, I'd recommend reading our most recent FAQ article regarding sources and citations...

http://www.leisterpro.com/doc/version11/questions/answers/citationtalk.php

[Kim]

Re: Sources versus Citations

This is what I do too - one census page == 1 source - unless the family spreads across two pages, in which case that source has two pages, cited as many times as necessary.

But 1 page with multiple families listed on it still equals 1 source, cited as many times as necessary.

Roger

I also only use one source, even if more than one of my families is listed.

[Susan Freas Rogers]

Re: Sources versus Citations

Just want to say that you can give yourself permission to be as finely detailed and specific, OR as broadly non-specific and vague, as you choose. It's whatever works for you and for whoever else in your family you think will be looking at your records in the years to come, and how much they will care how specific you were/are.

I am one of the "broadly non-specific" group. I have one source number for each year of a census: 1790, 1800, 1855 for some states, etc. I drag that into the Source area in a person's card. It would horrify a traditional, certified genealogist to know that I do not record enumeration district, line number, or any of those kinds of details, anywhere. My assumption is that from now in the far future, census images will always be available from multiple different sources and can be looked at again if someone wants really specific details. I have very few relatives who are interested in my work beyond, "Wow, that's interesting," so that may color my perspective.

On my hard drive, I save the page image named for the head of the household:
Clayton Gilbert CensusUS1830 Src70.jpg
Sometimes it will look like:
Clayton Japhia CensusUS1860 w Margaret & 4 kids Src25.jpg.
I'm not particularly consistent on how much extra I include in the name.

I started putting the Source number at the end of image file names about a year ago, and it helps me a LOT. In the Source box itself, multimedia tab, I can see immediately on my hard drive that I'm choosing the right file to drag over onto the Multimedia tab for that source. If I ever wonder, "where did I get this?" I have the answer. (There are other benefits, but those are the ones I can think of right now.) I have NOT gone back to put the Source number at the end of every image file from two previous years of work. Too much trouble, AND when you change a file name, it breaks the link to the Person record.

To answer your question more specifically: For multiple people in a household, I don't do much of anything other than attach that census page image to their Person record for Name, Birth (using "abt" when deriving birth year from age at census and typing into the memo box, "derived from age X at 1870 census").

If additional ancestors in a completely different family happen to show up on the same census page, I duplicate the image in Finder, then re-name the file per the above example. I leave the word "copy" in the filename (which Finder puts there when you dupe it), so that tips me off that the same image is elsewhere in my records and has another family on the same census page.

This is probably a lot longer than you want or need, but hope there is something here that is helpful.

Susan

[Howard Fink]

Re: Sources versus Citations

I also make one Source for a census page, but I then add a Source Detail to the citation for each person with the line number of that person. Same thing for a Ship Passenger record.

This creates a unique citation that leads a reader to the exact source information. In cases where the page may include multiple people with the same name, or a woman with a different surname than that listed in your data it will add the specific location without ambiguity.

When a family group runs over a page boundary in either of those types of Sources I make one Source with images of both pages linked in the media field, and no Page in the Source. In that case I put both a Page number and a Line number in the Detail field of each citation. In a report this will look identical to the single page occurrences, but the ibid notations may add the Page number as well as the Line number. I like that the connection between the two pages is explicitly defined in a single Source in these cases.

[Frank]

Re: Sources versus Citations

Hi Susan,

Thanks for your helpful contribution to this thread.

Just one clarification...

...when you change a file name, it breaks the link to the Person record...

This is no longer true, and hasn't been true since the release of Reunion 10 in May 2012.

Once an image file is linked to a person, family, or source record, it remains linked even if moved or renamed.

The only exception, as mentioned in the manual, is when an image file is moved to another volume (typically, another hard disk) and the original image is deleted.

[John Hill]

Re: Sources versus Citations

Please excuse me if this has been asked, answered, and done to death before...

If I have a source (say a census) that I can use to show a residence address for multiple persons (everyone in a household), should I create one Source for that census and the cite it in each of the individuals named? If so where should I indicate what part of the source (in this case the individual entry in the census record) that I'm citing? Or should I make one source for each person (in this case, one for each line of the census)?

I guess what I'm asking, in some level of gibberish, is if I should make one source per citation, or one source, and then multiple citations of it, and where should I put the specific information that distinguishes a given use of a source in a citation from a use of the same source in a different one?

I have mainly UK censuses, but apply the same procedure to all.

I have one source per census (NOT per page of census). For an individual citation, I put the reference of the census page in the detail field of this source (for UK censuses up to 1901, this is Piece/Folio/Page). The relevant address goes in the Census event. This event is then copied and pasted as a whole into the Events area of each person in that family.

Very occasionally a family overlaps a page boundary. In such cases I ensure that the reference to the exact page appears in the detail

If I attempted one source per census page I would finish up with an unmanageably long source list.

[Susan Freas Rogers]

Re: Sources versus Citations

This is no longer true, and hasn't been true since the release of Reunion 10 in May 2012.

Once an image file is linked to a person, family, or source record, it remains linked even if moved or renamed.

The only exception, as mentioned in the manual, is when an image file is moved to another volume (typically, another hard disk) and the original image is deleted.

Hmmmm. Of course you must know, Frank, but I'm going to have to take a harder look at what happens to me. (Reunion 10 was my first-ever version, having just switched to Mac in 2012. Now on 11.0.9.)

I have dozens, if not hundreds, of files that show up either in a person's multi-media panel, or on the multi-media tab of a Source, with a question mark or other indicator of a broken link. Whenever I go back to find the original file to link it again (since the Repair function doesn't usually work for me in these cases), I can see that I had revised the file name. Now I'll have to experiment to see if any other variable was involved. I do not move files to another volume, other than all files are in Dropbox.

I don't want to hijack this thread to a different topic, so if I can't find an answer (weeks from now, some vacations coming up) I will post a new thread or email Support directly. Thank you for your clarification, Frank, of what's supposed to be.

[Michael Talibard]

Re: Sources versus Citations

If I attempted one source per census page I would finish up with an unmanageably long source list.

John - I have been trying not to join in this one (we've been here so many times) but I feel I must reassure people just starting out that those of us who have gone down the one-source-per-page route have found no difficulty in using a long list of sources. And of course, each can have its particular image attached.

[macRBC]

Re: Sources versus Citations

John - I have been trying not to join in this one (we've been here so many times) but I feel I must reassure people just starting out that those of us who have gone down the one-source-per-page route have found no difficulty in using a long list of sources. And of course, each can have its particular image attached.

I have over 3,000 Reunion sources, many being census records. In Reunion only, I have one per person . I can't find anywhere to put the details of each person (name, age, date of birth, occupation, etc, etc) except in "free form text" portion, so that voids it for the next person. I don't want to have each member of the household's details in one source. That could mean 6-10 people. Clutter.

I do track the "numbers/pages, etc" in the Source fields, setup as a Census template. Once I do person one, I duplicate so as not to repeat typing that part. Then substitute the text for the new person.

[theKiwi]

Re: Sources versus Citations

If I attempted one source per census page I would finish up with an unmanageably long source list.

Unmanageably long is a quite arbitrary assignment - I have 2300 sources in a file for 18,000 people, and consider that to be woefully under sourced.

There is no limitation within Reunion that prevents you from using a new source for every new bit of information since Reunion allows for an unlimited number of sources in a family file.

There may be a practical limit if your list of sources grows to perhaps some tens of thousands in that searching that list might take longer but it surely is out-weighed by the much more easy to imagine difficulty of having 500 citations of a single source "1940 US Federal Census" and then trying to keep track of the image files that all represent that, along with all of the detail citations like district, page number etc etc.

Roger

[Michael Talibard]

Re: Sources versus Citations

I have over 3,000 Reunion sources, many being census records. In Reunion only, I have one per person . I can't find anywhere to put the details of each person (name, age, date of birth, occupation, etc, etc) except in "free form text" portion, so that voids it for the next person.

Perhaps I have misunderstood, but are you putting these person details into the source? Why? That's really not what it's for. Sources should show where you found your info, not what you found.

[Kim]

Re: Sources versus Citations

Perhaps I have misunderstood, but are you putting these person details into the source? Why? That's really not what it's for. Sources should show where you found your info, not what you found.

I do actually put these details into my source. Like MacRBC, I add this to the free from section and leave 'exclude from end notes' checked. For example, in the census I include

Line # - Name - Relationship - Age - Marital Status - Birthplace

and depending on the year, I may include immigration info, occupation, or other info.

Unlike MacRBC, I include all family members in the same source.

I use the 'Source Fields' tab to keep information showing where I obtained the information; publication, date, page, etc.

I do this for a couple of reasons.
First, it is a quick way to refer the info if I ever want to view it quickly. And though I attach the multimedia pages to the source, if ever they did become 'lost', I still have the information. It also makes it very easy to uncheck the 'exclude from end notes' box and print the info in text from if I want to share it with someone who really doesn't care where I got it, like older relatives who are interested in what I've learned but not too interested in where I got my info.

I'm not implying that anyone else should do it this way. I think it is wonderful that Reunion easily adapts to all of our different styles!