Export GEDCOM - Symbols Change

[BeppieChick]

I regularly upload my tree to a couple of different family websites and certain symbols come out different, as per attachments. I have been exporting the GEDCOM as per third attachment. Perhaps I need to change one of those settings?

Also, I see when I tried to find 'sHertogenbosch on my Reunion file under Places, I noticed I had two versions and upon looking at it enlarged on my screen, I see the apostrophe is slightly different on both. Both come out different on the family tree website.

Verson 1 - ‘sHertogenbosch - comes out as 'shertogenbosch
Version 2 - 'sHertogenbosch - comes out as Shertogenbosch

You can actually see the different types of apostrophe above but I have no idea why this has been happening and what settings on my Mac I need to change to make it all the same - and obviously I would prefer the first version because Shertogenbosch looks a little dumb - both seem to remove my capital H but I'm guessing that is possibly the website itself, not my file.

There are other issues (as per attachments) with the é, ë ê etc but maybe that is the way I export rather than my keyboard settings?

Would love some help on this please.

[Dennis J. Cunniff]

Re: Export GEDCOM - Symbols Change

I see when I tried to find 'sHertogenbosch on my Reunion file under Places, I noticed I had two versions and upon looking at it enlarged on my screen, I see the apostrophe is slightly different on both. Both come out different on the family tree website.

Version 1 - ‘sHertogenbosch - comes out as 'shertogenbosch
Version 2 - 'sHertogenbosch - comes out as Shertogenbosch

You can actually see the different types of apostrophe above but I have no idea why this has been happening and what settings on my Mac I need to change to make it all the same - and obviously I would prefer the first version because Shertogenbosch looks a little dumb - both seem to remove my capital H but I'm guessing that is possibly the website itself, not my file.

Well, first things first. I call this place ‘s-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands and it's never given me any problems. That's a curly left quotation mark in front of the s.

Curly quotes are the ones used in good typography, while straight quotes are used in settings where it's hard to manage the curly quotes. Curly quotes are slightly more complicated because the left quote marks are different from the right quote marks, whereas the left and right straight quotes are the same.

The unicode values for the quotes:

single quotes:
U+0027, apostrophe (')
U+2018, left single quotation mark (‘)
U+2019, right single quotation mark (’), also used as an apostrophe

double quotes:
U+0022, quotation mark (")
U+201C, left double quotation mark (“)
U+201D, right double quotation mark (”)


single quotes----
straight - ' you type this just by typing the ' key
curly left - ‘ you type this by typing option-]
curly right - ’ you type this by typing option-shift-]

double quotes----
straight - " you type this just by typing the shift-' key, which has " as the "capital"
curly left - “ you type this by typing option-[
curly right - ” you type this by typing option-shift-[

You probably have the curly quotes in your file because you cut and pasted the place name from a site that used them. Or from a Microsoft Word file that had the "curly quote" option on (which changes any straight quotes you type to curly quotes). And you probably have the straight quotes in your file because you typed the place names that way.

But once you're aware there's a difference, you can easily type any quotation mark you like under OS X. You just need to pick the one you want to use and stick to it.

You can set up the OS to use smart quotes and dashes in the System Preferences under the Keyboard panel (under "Text", check "Use smart quotes and dashes") This will substitute the curly characters for the straight ones that you type. It will also convert double hyphens -- to em-dashes —.

You could easily change all your 'sHertogenbosches to ’sHertogenbosches by dragging them to the ’sHertogenbosch in the Places side bar (one drag will change all of them at once). And you can then add the hyphen if you like, which will preserve the capital H’s.

You can use similar conventions for similar names, like ‘s-Gravenhage

[theKiwi]

Re: Export GEDCOM - Symbols Change

There are other issues (as per attachments) with the é, ë ê etc but maybe that is the way I export rather than my keyboard settings?

You don't say where you're loading this GEDCOM file to - that makes a difference in the needed export settings, but one thing is for sure - do not use the Macintosh character set option - that's an option from days of yore that is of no relevance in an online world.

I would first try changing it to UTF-8 and see what happens.

You can get a hint as to what is needed by looking at one of the pages your data is published at online and using "View Source" to find out what character set the page is using - it's shown in a line like this in the page's source code near the top

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" />

If it says UTF-8 at the end of that line, then definitely set your Reunion export to UTF-8

Roger

[BeppieChick]

Re: Export GEDCOM - Symbols Change

Thanks for the long reply - appreciate your time. I had "Use Smart Quotes and Dashes" already ticked in preferences. I turned it off to see if I would now get automatic curly quotes, but I am not. In fact, turning it off and on and testing it, the quote marks look exactly the same. Do I have to restart the computer to see the difference?

Excuse my ignorance, but unless I copy the curly quotation marks, I just get straight ones, but it seems that these are the ones that I need I think, to keep the 'shertogenbosch instead of Shertogenbosch. I'm confusing myself now. Can't seem to see the difference any more.

Well, first things first. I call this place ‘s-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands and it's never given me any problems. That's a curly left quotation mark in front of the s.

Curly quotes are the ones used in good typography, while straight quotes are used in settings where it's hard to manage the curly quotes. Curly quotes are slightly more complicated because the left quote marks are different from the right quote marks, whereas the left and right straight quotes are the same.

The unicode values for the quotes:

single quotes:
U+0027, apostrophe (')
U+2018, left single quotation mark (‘)
U+2019, right single quotation mark (’), also used as an apostrophe

double quotes:
U+0022, quotation mark (")
U+201C, left double quotation mark (“)
U+201D, right double quotation mark (”)


single quotes----
straight - ' you type this just by typing the ' key
curly left - ‘ you type this by typing option-]
curly right - ’ you type this by typing option-shift-]

double quotes----
straight - " you type this just by typing the shift-' key, which has " as the "capital"
curly left - “ you type this by typing option-[
curly right - ” you type this by typing option-shift-[

You probably have the curly quotes in your file because you cut and pasted the place name from a site that used them. Or from a Microsoft Word file that had the "curly quote" option on (which changes any straight quotes you type to curly quotes). And you probably have the straight quotes in your file because you typed the place names that way.

But once you're aware there's a difference, you can easily type any quotation mark you like under OS X. You just need to pick the one you want to use and stick to it.

You can set up the OS to use smart quotes and dashes in the System Preferences under the Keyboard panel (under "Text", check "Use smart quotes and dashes") This will substitute the curly characters for the straight ones that you type. It will also convert double hyphens -- to em-dashes —.

You could easily change all your 'sHertogenbosches to ’sHertogenbosches by dragging them to the ’sHertogenbosch in the Places side bar (one drag will change all of them at once). And you can then add the hyphen if you like, which will preserve the capital H’s.

You can use similar conventions for similar names, like ‘s-Gravenhage

[BeppieChick]

Re: Export GEDCOM - Symbols Change

Hi

Thanks for your answer. I loading the GEDCOM to genealogieonline, geneanet and myheritage. I have just checked my newly uploaded file that I put up yesterday, using UTF-8 and it changed the 'sHertogenbosch to be correct. But, it took the é right out of a name, so instead of Gérard, it now shows Grard. Fixed one issue, started another. Thérése now looks awful (see attachment).

Gosh, now what?

Liz

You don't say where you're loading this GEDCOM file to - that makes a difference in the needed export settings, but one thing is for sure - do not use the Macintosh character set option - that's an option from days of yore that is of no relevance in an online world.

I would first try changing it to UTF-8 and see what happens.

You can get a hint as to what is needed by looking at one of the pages your data is published at online and using "View Source" to find out what character set the page is using - it's shown in a line like this in the page's source code near the top



If it says UTF-8 at the end of that line, then definitely set your Reunion export to UTF-8

Roger

[Dennis J. Cunniff]

Re: Export GEDCOM - Symbols Change

I had "Use Smart Quotes and Dashes" already ticked in preferences. I turned it off to see if I would now get automatic curly quotes, but I am not. In fact, turning it off and on and testing it, the quote marks look exactly the same. Do I have to restart the computer to see the difference?

Excuse my ignorance, but unless I copy the curly quotation marks, I just get straight ones, but it seems that these are the ones that I need I think, to keep the 'shertogenbosch instead of Shertogenbosch. I'm confusing myself now. Can't seem to see the difference any more.

I just tested changing the "Smart Quotes and Dashes" and got the same result. Just turning it on or off made no difference. But if you restart the computer it does make a difference. So if you do that, you may find that you can type the various marks using the key combinations from my previous message, and you'll see the expected characters.

You also need to make sure that the little pull down menus by "for Double Quotes" and "for Single Quotes" is set to get the ones you want when it's on.



Another thing to look out for is that it's possible for some fonts not to have curly quotes that look different from straight quotes. (But this would be strange in a modern font.) And the difference is more obvious in some fonts than others, so switching fonts may make them easier to see.

[BeppieChick]

Re: Export GEDCOM - Symbols Change

Thanks Dennis - will do as you suggest. I never thought about changing the fonts just for my test. Reunion only shows one font, so I am testing it in Word with a large size to see what happens. Appreciate your help.

I just tested changing the "Smart Quotes and Dashes" and got the same result. Just turning it on or off made no difference. But if you restart the computer it does make a difference. So if you do that, you may find that you can type the various marks using the key combinations from my previous message, and you'll see the expected characters.

You also need to make sure that the little pull down menus by "for Double Quotes" and "for Single Quotes" is set to get the ones you want when it's on.

Another thing to look out for is that it's possible for some fonts not to have curly quotes that look different from straight quotes. (But this would be strange in a modern font.) And the difference is more obvious in some fonts than others, so switching fonts may make them easier to see.

[Dennis J. Cunniff]

Re: Export GEDCOM - Symbols Change

I never thought about changing the fonts just for my test. Reunion only shows one font, so I am testing it in Word with a large size to see what happens.

Keep in mind that Word also wants to turn your straight quotes into curly quotes. For my version of Word, that setting is under Preferences -> AutoCorrect, under "Replace as You Type", a check box for "Straight quotation marks" with “smart quotation marks.”

Glad to help, let me know what happens

[BeppieChick]

Re: Export GEDCOM - Symbols Change

Hi Dennis

All sorted now - it seems that this issue is also only a problem in GenealogieOnline - not in GeneaNet or MyHeritage. So I will speak to the creator of that site and see what he says. Once again, thank you.

Liz

Keep in mind that Word also wants to turn your straight quotes into curly quotes. For my version of Word, that setting is under Preferences -> AutoCorrect, under "Replace as You Type", a check box for "Straight quotation marks" with “smart quotation marks.”

Glad to help, let me know what happens

[Dennis J. Cunniff]

Re: Export GEDCOM - Symbols Change

All sorted now - it seems that this issue is also only a problem in GenealogieOnline - not in GeneaNet or MyHeritage. So I will speak to the creator of that site and see what he says.

Liz - Happy you were able to isolate the problem. Let's hope GenealogieOnline can cure it

- Dennis

[fjvanbodegom]

Re: Export GEDCOM - Symbols Change

Today I read your lengthy thread about changing characters.
The problem you describe with GenealogieOnline is known for a long time.

I don't know if you can read Dutch (perhaps with Google Translate), but I refer you to these threads:
- https://www.stamboomforum.nl/subfora/45/2/43432/0
- https://www.stamboomforum.nl/subfora/138/2/57098/0
- https://www.stamboomforum.nl/servicedesk/2/56606/0
and there are more about this issue

Several users have contacted the webmaster without result.
One of the users wrote: mails about this problem are not answered

Hope that the webmaster will listen to you.