I am just getting started with Reunion 10 (v10.0.6), having used v9 for the last six years. Old habits are hard to change, so the differences in v10 are often frustrating. So far I have been able to find all my answers in either the built-in manual or the online ReunionTalk. But today I have just noticed what I consider the most shocking change: No "Cancel" button for undoing changes to the person cards. In v9 you had the choice of "Cancel" or "Save" and I can't tell you how many times I've been so thankful I could hit Cancel and discard a very bad change which, at best, would otherwise have been very cumbersome to correct (e.g. tracking down the latest backup). Unless there is some new hidden cancel button, I strongly urge you to bring that feature back. I could not find any discussions about this in ReunionTalk, which I also found unbelievable. What am I missing here?
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Bruce Winton Christopher
Environment: Reunion 14 build 241014; macOS 10.15.7
bruce@bwchristopher.com -
Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
You are not missing. You are just late to the party. There was plenty of discussion about this around this time a year ago when version 10 was hot off the press. Recently, in response to an unrelated question, Leister staff explained that there are retention periods for categories on ReunionTalk. I don't recall the specific numbers but it may be that those discussions dropped off due to their age.
So, the once in a while that you realize -- before clicking the Done button -- that you have bad data, highlight it and hit the delete key. It's not a big deal unless you have lots of bad data experiences.
Bob White, Mac Nut Since 1985, Reunion Nut Since 1991
Jenanyan, Barnes, White, Duncan, Dunning, Hedge and more
iMac/MacBookAir M1 - iPhonePro/iPadPro - Reunion14 & RT -
Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
A Cancel button makes life easier for the user - isn't that the point of computers and their software? I agree that it should be re-instated.
Jamie.Comment
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Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
I second that! Bring back the cancel button please.Comment
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Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
Unfortunately that doesn't restore any text that your change might have replaced. Nor will it restore an inadvertently deleted event or fact, but "Cancel" would.Originally posted by Bob White View Post
On a related point, today I accidentally (via clumsy fingers) deleted a photo I had just added to a Family Multimedia section (i.e., deleted it from that section, not the original image file). I don't even know what key(s) I hit (possibly clicked on the '-') that made it disappear but sure enough there was no Undo button or command to recover; requiring me to re-add the photo and comments. In this case though, v9 was no better in helping you recover from such an unintended action. As "Barnbarroch" noted, the computer should make it easier to deal with such human problems.Bruce Winton Christopher
Environment: Reunion 14 build 241014; macOS 10.15.7
bruce@bwchristopher.comComment
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Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
Depending on how data is entered into a file by either the OS or the application, sometimes it is just not possible to undo something. Leister did change the fundamental way they handle some things with R 10, and this may be one of them. Perhaps someone from Leister could comment.
PaulComment
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Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
Yes, pretty please.Comment
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Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
Yes, Please bring it back!Originally posted by Bruce Christopher View Post
ReinerComment
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Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
I just wanted to add that I now have seen that the Cancel button is also missing from the Source edit window in Reunion 10. It should also be restored there if it can be restored at all within the new architecture of the application. Also, if there was any prior discussion as to *why* the Cancel feature was removed from Reunion I would very much like to read about that because I cannot think of any good justification for this change.Bruce Winton Christopher
Environment: Reunion 14 build 241014; macOS 10.15.7
bruce@bwchristopher.comComment
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Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
As I recall there was an animated discussion on this topic around the time of Reunion 10's release, as Bob White also mentioned. But I cannot find this discussion in the ReunionTalk archives.Originally posted by Bruce Christopher View Post
In the section "Changes in Reunion 10" of the Reunion 10 Help manual, it says the following regarding the absence of a Cancel button, but without further explanation. This "official" explanation implies that this was done for consistency with the Mac OS X paradigm.
[i] Cancel - Like many newer Mac OS X applications, you won't see a Cancel or Save buttons in most of the windows in Reunion 10Byron SpoonComment
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Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
[QUOTE=ByronSpoon;37913]
[i] Cancel - Like many newer Mac OS X applications, you won't see a Cancel or Save buttons in most of the windows in Reunion 10Bruce Winton Christopher
Environment: Reunion 14 build 241014; macOS 10.15.7
bruce@bwchristopher.comComment
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Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
Pretty please bring the "Cancel" button back. It is aggravating to have to 'undo' changes by deleting/erasing the information when a click of the button gets me back to the original.Comment
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Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
Pretty please with sugar on it? I absolutely agree. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The cancel button saved my biscuit countless times. Opening a back-up copy, navigating to the right family, and retyping is so incredibly tedious. I feel like I'm being punished. It's definitely not progress, especially when a cancel button did it all, simply and effectively. ~LilyOriginally posted by daviking View PostComment
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Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
I would dearly like to see this too. I said so when Cancel was first deleted in Reunion 10, and nothing has happened since to change my mind - rather the opposite, as I have mis-entered data time and again and regretted I couldn't just go back.Originally posted by genealogist.lily View Post
I agree strongly that the disappearance of Cancel in other applications is a retrograde step and should not be imitated - merely deprecated.Comment
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Re: Please bring back the "Cancel" Button!
The issue with Cancel is that many more of the windows in Reunion 10 are non-modal than they were in prior versions. There is a fundamental incompatibility between having a non-modal window and having Cancel or Revert functionality.
A modal window, for those unfamiliar with the terminology, is one in which, once you open it, you cannot interact with any of the other windows or menu commands of the program before dismissing the modal window. Modal windows can easily have Revert and Cancel buttons, because they often do not touch the actual data until they are closed, working only on a temporary cached copy of a subset of the data. Cancel is then just as simple as "never mind". Even in the cases where they do work immediately on the real data, the modality provides a very convenient "hook" and clear snapshot time for remembering when the window opens the information needed to revert to that state before closing it.
A non-modal window is one in which you can interact with the data through other windows or independent menu commands while the window is open. Often they load themselves with new data when you change "selections" or change the data through other windows. While non-modal windows are fully compatible with step-by-step Undo of individual edits, it is problematic trying to define what "Cancel" or "Revert" would mean, especially under situations where the user keeps multiple windows open simultaneously and moves back and forth between them. What state does the system revert back to? The state of the entire database when that window was opened? The state of the entire database when that window started displaying whatever record(s) that are currently displayed in it? Reverting the state of the records currently displayed in that window but not the state of any records edited only through other windows? Reverting back to the farthest-back time where all the changes have been made through that window and no other, even if they were to a different record? Reverting back to the last time when the record last edited (through any UI) was not the same record that was most recently edited? (Many of these sound similar, but they are all subtly different.)
Due to these ambiguities and complexities, non-modal windows typically do not have Cancel, Revert or Save buttons.
In prior versions of Reunion, the only non-modal windows were the main "family card" view and the Index window. Note that neither has ever had a Cancel or Revert button, for precisely these reasons. The Edit Person and Edit Family windows were modal.
Thus, requests for restoration of a Cancel button on the windows that formerly had one are essentially a request to make those windows modal again. Which is a reasonable request, but one should be aware what other changes in functionality would go along with it. In particular, you would HAVE to close the windows that have those buttons before interacting with Reunion through other windows. The "trend" towards fewer modal windows is not just a fashion, it is in response to user expectations of being able to interact with the data through multiple windows simultaneously rather than being forced to work in a "one window at a time" fashion.
[I am not a LeisterPro employee. But I am a software engineer, and have in the past converted many parts of the Adobe Illustrator user interface from modal dialogs with Cancel/Save buttons to modeless panels without them - but with chained step-by-step Undo.]Last edited by TeriPettit; 13 June 2013, 11:55 AM.My Home Page: http://tpettit.best.vwh.net/Comment
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