Name format across the application

[M L]

I am starting work on a genealogy in which the primary names of almost all family members are in Chinese. In Reunion 10 I figured out how to change the format in Family View, but is there a way to change the format across the app? The ideal format would be "LASTFirst", e.g. "孫逸仙" (surname "孫"), with the possible exception of those family members with Latin names, for which ideally the format would be "LAST First Middle" ("TRUMAN Harry S"), or "LAST, First Middle" ("TRUMAN, Harry S"). But primarily, I'm looking for a way to make the family name first in all areas of the app. Seeing names in GivenName Surname order for Chinese is unintuitive and confusing, so fixing that is a primary concern for me in terms of selecting a genealogy program. I'd appreciate any input-- even if it steers me away from Reunion!

M

[kmgenealogy]

Re: Name format across the application

,<snip> But primarily, I'm looking for a way to make the family name first in all areas of the app. <snip>M

Don't know if this is what you did, however, it's the only way I know of to change the order of the names:

Reunion > Preferences > Family View > Default or General > Miscellaneous > Text > Click on "Last name first" box > if you want a comma after the last name, click on that box.

Hope this helps.
Kaye

[M L]

Re: Name format across the application

Reunion > Preferences > Family View > Default or General > Miscellaneous > Text > Click on "Last name first" box > if you want a comma after the last name, click on that box.

That's exactly what I did, but, as advertised, this only made a difference in the Family View, and not anywhere else the name is used...

So no way to get this behavior across the board?

[ByronSpoon]

Re: Name format across the application

M L, you are correct as far as I know. But I hope a user with interest in Chinese ancestry will reply and explain how they handle this. Reunion is flexible in many other ways.

There are but a few instances where names can be shown in a user-specified order, as in the family view and in columnarized lists.

However, names shown in reports, charts, tree view, etc, are shown in given-name surname sequence and there appears to be no mechanism to reverse the order. In narrative style reports one can omit the entire name from the text phrases (for brevity) but names at the paragraph/subject headings are shown in given-name surname order. And menus that pop up where one chooses which person to focus upon are shown in given-name surname sequence.

[Gato]

Re: Name format across the application

I keep records in Reunion 10 on numerous Chinese family members, with their names recorded in Romanized (Pinyin, Wade-Giles or whatever dialect transcription and adopted names were used), and Chinese characters -- without bothering to alter the displayed name order to the conventional surname-given names Chinese order. I have left it that way because global alteration of the name order just to accommodate the Chinese naming convention would cause an inconsistency in the majority of names, which use given names-surname order. I know of no means of applying a custom name order to individual records in Reunion. As necessary in reports, I manually edit the name order to be consistent with individual usage. I find that using Reunion's Edit Person>Last Name UPPERCASE control helps visually to distinguish and emphasize surnames from given names; the issue of name order then being for the viewer/reader to resolve with their understanding of the applicable name order convention.

You've probably noticed that the issue you have raised arises in many databases using both the modern Western given names-surname order and Chinese and other names using the reverse order. The Internet Movie Database (imdb.com) and author listings in many library catalogs are examples.

Names can be very complicated for Chinese because an individual who has lived in the West may have official names in both word orders, and original Chinese names Romanized in several different ways according to different methods of transcribing Mandarin or Chinese dialects. The Alias/AKA fact field is a GEDCOM-compliant feature of Reunion which helps to deal with these situations. See the Reunion 10 Help topic, "Name Changes and Multiple Last Names", which refers to use of the Alias/AKA fact field and to several optional approaches to name issues.

Earlier usage in some European countries also commonly ordered surnames first, at least for purposes of official documentation. No single practice of name order is universal.

I don't consider this a major problem. A "nice to have" Reunion feature, which would mostly resolve these differences of usage and naming conventions, might be:

* The ability to customize the name order across all instances of data retrieval and display for a specified individual. A checkbox for this purpose in the "Edit Person" pane would be a simple and intuitive control.

One for the Reunion suggestion box, I think.

I am starting work on a genealogy in which the primary names of almost all family members are in Chinese. In Reunion 10 I figured out how to change the format in Family View, but is there a way to change the format across the app? The ideal format would be "LASTFirst", e.g. "孫逸仙" (surname "孫"), with the possible exception of those family members with Latin names, for which ideally the format would be "LAST First Middle" ("TRUMAN Harry S"), or "LAST, First Middle" ("TRUMAN, Harry S"). But primarily, I'm looking for a way to make the family name first in all areas of the app. Seeing names in GivenName Surname order for Chinese is unintuitive and confusing, so fixing that is a primary concern for me in terms of selecting a genealogy program. I'd appreciate any input-- even if it steers me away from Reunion!

M

[M L]

Re: Name format across the application

I keep records in Reunion 10 on numerous Chinese family members, with their names recorded in Romanized (Pinyin, Wade-Giles or whatever dialect transcription and adopted names were used), and Chinese characters -- without bothering to alter the displayed name order to the conventional surname-given names Chinese order. I have left it that way because global alteration of the name order just to accommodate the Chinese naming convention would cause an inconsistency in the majority of names, which use given names-surname order.

If I were dealing with a database with mostly Western (except for Hungarian) names, this might be an approach to take, but in this case, most members' primary name *must* be in Chinese. In Chinese, there is no uppercase, so capitalizing the surname does not visually make a difference.

Names can be very complicated for Chinese because an individual who has lived in the West may have official names in both word orders, and original Chinese names Romanized in several different ways according to different methods of transcribing Mandarin or Chinese dialects.

This is precisely why the primary name must be the Chinese name, and not a Romanized name; Romanized names vary and for my purposes can only go in the Alias/AKA field.

I don't consider this a major problem. A "nice to have" Reunion feature, which would mostly resolve these differences of usage and naming conventions, might be:

* The ability to customize the name order across all instances of data retrieval and display for a specified individual. A checkbox for this purpose in the "Edit Person" pane would be a simple and intuitive control.

One for the Reunion suggestion box, I think.

I think what is needed is a default name order, with a per-person override.

Gramps has a default name order across the entire application, but not specific overrides (you can set the "displayname" separately, but that is an override of the entire name, not the name order).

Unfortunately, not being able to change the name order across the app *is* a major problem for me, and it sounds like whatever else Reunion might have going for it, for me this will be a dealbreaker. The first character to show *must* be the surname since there is no other indication that that is what it is.

Thanks for everyone's input.

[Gato]

Re: Name format across the application

If I were dealing with a database with mostly Western (except for Hungarian) names, this might be an approach to take, but in this case, most members' primary name *must* be in Chinese. In Chinese, there is no uppercase, so capitalizing the surname does not visually make a difference.



This is precisely why the primary name must be the Chinese name, and not a Romanized name; Romanized names vary and for my purposes can only go in the Alias/AKA field.


I think what is needed is a default name order, with a per-person override.

Gramps has a default name order across the entire application, but not specific overrides (you can set the "displayname" separately, but that is an override of the entire name, not the name order).

Unfortunately, not being able to change the name order across the app *is* a major problem for me, and it sounds like whatever else Reunion might have going for it, for me this will be a dealbreaker. The first character to show *must* be the surname since there is no other indication that that is what it is.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Good luck with that, M L. You might be able to find localized Chinese or Japanese genealogical software suitable for your purposes in Mac and Windows, but that's beyond my experience. I'd hesitate, even with your explanation of your priorities, to abandon the comprehensive features, power, reliability, product support and longevity of Reunion for this one feature -- but you have explained that you consider the name order issue top priority.

Googling for 家谱软件，苹果电脑 returns a few hits referring to Chinese-localized Mac software. I know nothing about this software; can't express an informed opinion about it. One of the Apple Stores in China might be able to help if you contact them by email or Skype, or on a visit to China.

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