Source Fields & Citation detail

[janelucas]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere. I've looked and can't find specifics. This is probably a daft question! However, I have just bought Reunion 10 and am trying to add Sources to individuals.
So for practise, I am adding birth record for myself and my son.
So I add new source (Vital), and in the fields which come up I put in say, Title, 'England and Wales Birth Index 1916-2005', I fill in some other fields and when I'm done it is assigned a source number, let's say '1'
I assumed (maybe naively) that when I went to use that source '1' for a different individual, Reunion would 'know' that it was different person. But it doesn't and I just ended up changing my son's birth date and place of birth etc to mine.
Bu this source has all those different fields, which would generally only apply to one person, eg. Date/Year, Registration District, Volume No. Page No. etc. So what is the point of them if you can't use them except for one person?
The only field that is fixed is the one I called 'Title' i.e., 'England and Wales Birth Index'.
So, unless I am doing something wrong, I will have to create a separate England and Wales Birth Index for every individual in my tree, which at the moment is over 1000 individuals?
What is the point of having all those fields attached to source type if I have to enter the details in 'free form'? I want them in structured form.
And the only time I save myself by creating a numbered source is the time it takes me to type 'England and Wales Birth Index....'!!
Or have I missed something?

[jbastin]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere. I've looked and can't find specifics. This is probably a daft question! However, I have just bought Reunion 10 and am trying to add Sources to individuals.
So for practise, I am adding birth record for myself and my son.
So I add new source (Vital), and in the fields which come up I put in say, Title, 'England and Wales Birth Index 1916-2005', I fill in some other fields and when I'm done it is assigned a source number, let's say '1'
I assumed (maybe naively) that when I went to use that source '1' for a different individual, Reunion would 'know' that it was different person. But it doesn't and I just ended up changing my son's birth date and place of birth etc to mine.
Bu this source has all those different fields, which would generally only apply to one person, eg. Date/Year, Registration District, Volume No. Page No. etc. So what is the point of them if you can't use them except for one person?
The only field that is fixed is the one I called 'Title' i.e., 'England and Wales Birth Index'.
So, unless I am doing something wrong, I will have to create a separate England and Wales Birth Index for every individual in my tree, which at the moment is over 1000 individuals?
What is the point of having all those fields attached to source type if I have to enter the details in 'free form'? I want them in structured form.
And the only time I save myself by creating a numbered source is the time it takes me to type 'England and Wales Birth Index....'!!
Or have I missed something?

To save yourself some typing, you can select "Sources" in the left sidebar, select the chosen source in the list on the right, then go to "Source Tools" (the little hammer icon at the bottom of the list) and choose "Duplicate Source" (or just type Command-D). This will give you a new source number with the same information entered, and you can then change the information from yours to your son's in the new source.

Hope this helps.

[janelucas]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

Thank you John, that definitely helps. I guess it's a question of learning the software .. I've been using Ancestry and FTM .. Their programme seems to sort out the source itself from the citation details for an individual. Don't know how. I didn't anticipate the difference!

[Howard Fink]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

Rather than add a new Source for each person you can use a Source for many people. Enter only the common information in the Source definition, e.g. Title, Location of Source, and other various information about the source like Years included, microfilm series, etc. When you add a Source Citation to an event you have the option to add additional Details for just that use of the Source. So many people can reference the same Source. When you generate a Report the Source citations will be the same, with the necessary Details added, by way of Ibid, [detail].

[Bill Guion]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

So for practise, I am adding birth record for myself and my son.
So I add new source (Vital), and in the fields which come up I put in say, Title, 'England and Wales Birth Index 1916-2005', I fill in some other fields and when I'm done it is assigned a source number, let's say '1'
I assumed (maybe naively) that when I went to use that source '1' for a different individual, Reunion would 'know' that it was different person. But it doesn't and I just ended up changing my son's birth date and place of birth etc to mine.
Bu this source has all those different fields, which would generally only apply to one person, eg. Date/Year, Registration District, Volume No. Page No. etc. So what is the point of them if you can't use them except for one person?
The only field that is fixed is the one I called 'Title' i.e., 'England and Wales Birth Index'.
So, unless I am doing something wrong, I will have to create a separate England and Wales Birth Index for every individual in my tree, which at the moment is over 1000 individuals?
What is the point of having all those fields attached to source type if I have to enter the details in 'free form'? I want them in structured form.
And the only time I save myself by creating a numbered source is the time it takes me to type 'England and Wales Birth Index....'!!
Or have I missed something?

Maybe I don't understand the question, but I believe you can do exactly what you want to do. For example, when you enter your son's data, lets say his birth date, with the cursor still in the birth date field, at the bottom of that screen, click on the little triangle at the right of "Add Source". You will get a drop down menu that allows 1. New Source 2. Drag Source from Sidebar 3. Enter Source Number and, below all that, a list of the last 20 sources you've used. For your example, you could select Enter Source Number and type in 1, or select 1 from the list at the bottom. That source will be cited for your son's birth date with no impact to his data.

-----===== Bill =====-----

[janelucas]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

Thanks Howard and Bill.. Very helpful. I think you're both saying the same thing.
I've been using Ancestry and FTM and finding it hard to get my head round the way Reunion works and stores data. I think I was mislead by the 'new source' box. Because it has Volume, page number, etc fields, I assumed I could use them for individuals.
I think I thought that all the information for a person, i.e, an event like birth, could be added in th same place, though obviously the fields for sources and detail have to be different. Confusion arises when one is not techie!
Also I didn't realise that stuff I put in the details box would be linked to source via IBID when reports are generated, so that is very useful to know. I was thinking that box was a waste of time!
Maybe I'll get to like Reunion after all!
My challenge is to add all the 1020 sources and media from Ancestry!

[s1xc00k]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

...
I've been using Ancestry and FTM and finding it hard to get my head round the way Reunion works and stores data....
My challenge is to add all the 1020 sources and media from Ancestry!

Hi Jane,
I recently moved from Ancestry and FTM to Reunion and it takes time to get used to the difference in how they operate, but worthwhile. I had about 1000 sources and I exported a GEDCOM from Ancestry and loaded that file into Reunion to save time.
I am generally only using four fields for each source, namely, title; author; publisher and call number (although this is personal choice on how much to use) since I use the detail field for each citation to add additional information. Therefore, you can have multiple citations using a single source, e.g. an electoral roll record could be a single source with multiple citations against a person's name, occupation and residence.
The ebook called "Practical Citation Guide-Reunion 10 Edition" is a useful guide.
Regards,
Paul

[janelucas]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

Hi Paul,
Thanks. Yes, this seems to be the consensus.. i.e. Using the detail field for specifics so one source can be used for multiple entries. It certainly seems like it's going to take a while to get used to. Reunion does get good reviews and plenty of support on this site, so I'm hopeful!
Think I'm just in panic mode at the moment. Ancestry is virtually 'click and save'! But I've moved to Reunion for more control and a decent database so I'm glad to hear from someone who has made the same move and is happy with it.

[theKiwi]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

Hi Paul,
Thanks. Yes, this seems to be the consensus.. i.e. Using the detail field for specifics so one source can be used for multiple entries.

I'm not sure that overall this is a consensus - I have no problems with having thousands of sources if that's what's needed to properly help me source my data, and be able to easily retrieve and verify the sources.

As an example - some here suggest using just a single source for say the 1940 US Federal Census, and then putting the more detailed information into the Detail Field.

But what if you save a printout of each applicable page from the 1940 US Federal Census - either as a file on your computer, or an actual paper printout? Then you end up with say 200 different extracts from the "1940 US Federal Census", so 200 digital files, or 200 pieces of paper.

Or what if you want to link the Census image each time it's used - linking them all to the source quickly becomes unwieldily, and you can't link them to the Detail.

I don't know how you'd file them in a manner that makes them easily retrievable, whereas under my philosophy this would generate 200 sources, each with their own number. I can then attach the image of that family on one or two pages to the Source, and I can if I wish have a paper printout of it which then gets assigned the identifier of the Source Number assigned by Reunion, and filed away in a folder in Source numerical order. Then if I need to look at Source 456 because it's referenced by Person 234, it's only a moment or two to find exactly the image or sheet of paper I need.

To my mind a record on a piece of paper == a Source, worthy of its own source number.

(And if you're having a hard time imagining census printouts, bear in mind I have a 13x19 printer that I have used exactly for this, and it also applies to any other kind of record too.

Roger of the Other View

[janelucas]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

But what if you save a printout of each applicable page from the 1940 US Federal Census - either as a file on your computer, or an actual paper printout? Then you end up with say 200 different extracts from the "1940 US Federal Census", so 200 digital files, or 200 pieces of paper.

Hi Roger ... You must have read my mind! After I'd posted I was thinking, 'but that only applies to filling in the name of the source and specific detail, not to the record itself'. Which of course is the most important part of any source citation. So I've been thinking hard. I have all the records on Ancestry at the moment. There is an old thread which explains a couple of different options for importing to Reunion. I think they boil down to (1) open original image for person and download to computer. Then rename and store on hard drive or (2) save the URL as link and/or drag item to multimedia page for person in Reunion. Or a combination of both would work.
That is a lot of data, and as you say, having a single source number could make finding an individual image, census, birth record or whatever quite slow because the image itself wouldn't be assigned a source number.
Hhmm.. I'm thinking (slowly!) I have over 1000 source records on Ancestry. What is the quickest way to get them all into Reunion I wonder? It takes quite a time to open each image, save to computer, rename, create new source for individual then add image. That's a lot of steps and I'm not sure I have them all clear and accounted for yet.
I'm not a fan of paper records and don't often print unless for some reason it is easier to read from a hard copy. But you're quite right, it makes no odds whether you have 1 number of hundreds.
I think there might be quite a break in research while I puzzle it out!

[theKiwi]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

Yes, I would say figure it out now when you "only" have 1,000 source documents on Ancestry - it will be more tedious when you have 2,000 :-)

And I don't know how helpful this idea might be, since I haven't tried it myself, but what if you get Family Treemaker for Macintosh and link that to your Ancestry tree. Will that then synch all your online stuff to Family Tree Maker on your computer, including downloading the images for you?

Then would a GEDCOM export out of Family Tree Maker to Reunion work to make the links to the images for you?

I don't know, and don't have time to try it out now - I don't have an online tree, but do have Family Tree Maker Mac Version 3.

Roger

[janelucas]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

...but what if you get Family Treemaker for Macintosh and link that to your Ancestry tree. Will that then synch all your online stuff to Family Tree Maker on your computer, including downloading the images for you?Roger

Sadly not.. That's exactly what I did but apparently FTM is no better than Ancestry at transferring a GEDCOM.. I suppose because it's basically the same being an Ancestry product. I know this isn't life changing stuff, but I'd have thought enough money went in to this kind if software for someone to have solved the transfer issue.

[kmgenealogy]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

Don't know if this is something you have already explored, and, it's for Legacy Family Tree, not Reunion. However, found this on Legacy's website:

http://support.legacyfamilytree.com/article/AA-00518

Ancestry.com - how to download an Ancestry Tree to Legacy
Author: Sherry Holthe Reference Number: AA-00518 Views: 1068 Created: 2013-11-14 12:24 PM Last Updated: 2014-07-18 04:30 PM 0 Rating/ Voters
Not all family trees at Ancestry.com can be downloaded as GEDCOM files. Please go to Ancestry.com technical support at http://help.ancestry.com/app/home and search for the term GEDCOM. This link will take you to Ancestry.com where you can view the steps for downloading GEDCOM files.

Once a GEDCOM file has been exported from Ancestry.com, you can easily import it into Legacy by clicking on File and selecting Import From > GEDCOM File and follow the prompts. Please visit http://support.legacyfamilytree.com/...-a-GEDCOM.html for more information.

I have Legacy on my Mac through a partition with VMWare Fusion. You might want to try it and then export a GEDCOM from Legacy. Think you may have to buy the Deluxe Legacy...not sure how many people the free Standard Legacy will hold. Deluxe is $29.95.

Just a thought.

[s1xc00k]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

...but what if you get Family Treemaker for Macintosh and link that to your Ancestry tree. Will that then synch all your online stuff to Family Tree Maker on your computer, including downloading the images for you?Roger

Hi Jane,
I purchased Family Tree Maker for Mac 3 and the method Roger described was how I got the images and sources etc to my computer from Ancestry. When you click File > New and then choose Download; there is an option to download citation media from Ancestry.

I used the approach of "if Ancestry calls it a source, I will call it a source" and looking at FTM3, it shows a source (default template) as having title, author, publisher, publisher location, respository, call number and comments PLUS multimedia and the citation linking to the source contains the source, repository, citation detail (which I used in Reunion detail field) and citation text and web site. The web site is not exported. I am manually dding these and once done, will probably stay with Reunion (less bugs).

I noted that Ancestry uses different approachs for different sources. I am not American not have any American sources but UK census sources are 1 source for each family member on the census but uses a different approach for electoral records where the range of years are citation details for a single source. My thoughts were that as I was quote sources from Ancestry, I would be true to what they called a source.

Without stating the obvious, use whatever approach you want to and try afew ways of doing thing with afew of your people in your tree via experimentation. Whatever works for you and you enjoy, it shouldn't be stressful.

For example, I am adding URL links to the source rather than the citation detail since it is easier. Some of my sources have one URL (e.g. census since Ancestry has this as a single source relating to each year) but some have more than one (where Ancestry decided to have a single source with multiple years to it, e.g. electoral roll records in England). I could add URLs to each citation detail, but when using Reunion, opening a source, right-clicking on the URL field to get Open URL option is working for me. I suspect other people could do this different and the advantage of these forums, is the different ideas provide opportunities to see what is more comfortable for you to use and adopt - have fun.

Regards,
Paul

[s1xc00k]

Re: Source Fields & Citation detail

...
I noted that Ancestry uses different approachs for different sources. I am not American not have any American sources but UK census sources are 1 source for each family member on the census but uses a different approach for electoral records where the range of years are citation details for a single source.

I made a mistake with the above explanation, Ancestry for census would show each year for an individual as a source and for electoral rolls would show a electoral roll spanning multiple years as a source, e.g.

Census records
Source 1841 England Census about Ann Burdett with one citation Class: HO107; Piece: 1080; Book: 15; Civil Parish: Send; County: Surrey; Enumeration District: 4; Folio: 30; Page: 15; Line: 5; GSU roll: 474666
Source 1851 England Census about Ann Burdett with one citation Class: HO107; Piece: 1594; Folio: 191; Page: 33; GSU roll: 193491-193492
etc....

where as for electoral roll, they would show;

Source London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 about George Albert Currington with multiple citations being 1922, 1927-1928, 1931-1933, 1935-1936; 1939, MR/PER/C/0665.

The difference is one single source and one Ancestry link to census records for each individual by year whereas electoral registers would have one source for individual spanning many years with citations being each of those years. I am not sure why Ancestry didn't reflect sources being England Census, 1841-1911 about <individual name> as opposed to having individual years being a source, namely source for 1841, source for 1851 etc.; lack of consistency but there is probably a good reason.

I not sure how the US Ancestry sources are structured and whether this difference in approach exists.

Regards,
Paul